Kiaran Im looking at

Kiaran, I'm looking at your list below, and I'm going to give my impressions of the last year or so active on this list.

The question I have is what is the group here for.Is it:

• * to support people in a similar position
• * offer advice and experience
• * formation of a political lobby group to changethings.
• * whinge about feminist organisations,
• * whinge about ex wives.
• * none of the above
• * all of the above.

Most of the posts on the list have been complaints about what people are and have experienced. The support has been limited to giving people -- myself included -- a place to vent. Unfortunately, most simply moved on when they had vented and been told that they were only one more victim.

There really hasn't been much advice or valuable experience posted on the list. That's only been something that I've seen in the last few months. The MRA (Men's Rights Agency) list and website has been the source.
Sue and Reg Price have developed a course on how to represent yourself in court; and give daily support and knowledgable advice on court proceedures.
This is an area where I think F4E could work with MRA and work to improve.

Unfortunately, the "whinge about feminist institutions" has usually been limited to ranting and name-calling. Rarely has anyone actually named any feminist institution other than NOW; and almost never is any feminist thinker quoted.

The political lobbying has been an almost subterranean enterprise.
I know that Ash and others pressed to get the Rebuttal Assumption -- or Equal Parenting -- made into law for more than 6 months over the course of the year.
Much of the work was done behind the scenes. A lot of supporting research was posted to the group, but rarely commented upon.
To this day, I don't know clearly what was passed or how it will affect the overall situation.

My personal opinion is Equal Parenting provisions are far too little and too late. There are activist courts and social structures across the country who have ignored the letter of the law for years with impunity.
Equal Parenting has been in the law since 1975. The wording was reiterated in 1986, 1995, 2002, 2005, and 2006. From the apparent outcome, all that has happened is more money has gone to the corrupted agencies and prejudiced professionals. -- There has been no political will to change the system.

Which brings us to the "political movement."
A political movement requires a number of things: issues, organization, money, publicity, and leadership.

Ash Patil has provided a steady hand for fathers4equality in Australia. He has set up a website and this list to gather momentum. I think the effects of the Megaphone have yet to really show.
Over the last year, I have saved posts from this list that show more than 100 people active at different times. I was told by Ash (via email) that between the website and the list, the group numbered over 1100.

From what I've seen, the website and this list are the extent of the organization. Until recently, there weren't even regular meetings from the list.

Yet the issues that have been listed as goals or points for the group have been very few. Most of the effort went into getting the Rebuttal Assumption passed.

I do not know of any donations that have been made to fathers4equality.
For example, I have offered for months to donate my skills and expertise in web design, internet marketing, and blogging, but there have been no takers. There were a couple of suggestions that were never followed up.
Dan tried to put together a project to interview and make public a CD of the stories from the list. I gather he could not get 5 people who were willing to be interviewed.

No one has ever asked or offered to donate money.

Although there have been numerous complaints about the Press not covering the problems of fathers and men -- such as the way the male suicide rate was covered -- and some members have tried to get letters to the editor published, I do not know of a single article from this list that was published.
The only publicity that has appeared in Australia seems to be negative. For example, the Black Shirts harassing women and their families last year.

Although I admire Ash for his steady, subtle hand in leadership, I am dismayed that others have not stepped forward to provide local and special purpose leadership from this group. Lindsay Jaekel and his small group have staked out a position of providing information and support. Yuri and Akiva have taken up the research and academic effort in great depth.

But there is no real organization for someone who finds this group to plug into.
There are no volunteers to visit (or call) for support, or venting;

• no trained mentors;
• no sources of information and perspective;
• etc.

Things that a group like this can do.
What happens is the person is either left to flounder and find their own way through (as I was), or they are referred -- almost blindly -- by one member or another to some other group with a hale and hearty, "Goodbye and Good Luck..."

Based on those observations, I have pressed for more contact and organization locally, and proposed blogging to get the word out. My role has been small, but I did add my voice and things did happen. My voice was only one of many, of course.

I don't think a single leader needs to emerge. I think that leadership has been shown by some already. I think there is a good core to move forward. The question is How?

--Paul